Combien coûte la Veuve ?

Bonjour, je suis nouveau venu sur ce forum, que je trouve bien fascinant. Depuis mon enfance je m'interessais a propos de cette Veuve si froide et si précise. Comme vous l'avez peut-etre deviné, le Francais n'est pas ma langue maternelle, et, en plus, j'ai oublié presque tout les codes pour faire les accents sur ce maudit clavier anglophone.

En tout cas, j'ai une question a poser: combien, pensez-vous, est-ce qu'une guillotine couterait? Je me suis amusé en faisant un calcul basé sur les prix qu'on demande sur ce site de modeles merveilleux, Les Bois de Justice, que je sais que vous connaissez déja. Si les modeles sont de taille 1:6, et les prix commencent a 500 $, multiplions ca par 6, et on a le tres bas prix de 3000 $ qui est surement trop peu pour un tel oeuvre. S'il me faillait deviner, je dirait au moins 10,000 dollars américains pour en acheter une guillotine de taille actuel, mais je suis certain que je me trompe.

Le gars qui a visté M. Meyssonnier n'a-t'il pas, par hasard, demandé combien ses guillotines on couté?

Merci a tous!

Very interesting subject...

If the issue was a direct scale-up of the amount of material used each dimension is multiplied by 6 to go from a 1/6 scale to a full scale model... therefore the price would be multiplied by 6 x 6 x 6 = 216... 216 x $500 = $108,000.

It works more or less for the weight: 7 Lbs for a 1/6 scale Berger and 1,200 Lbs for the full scale version.

Meysonnier's guillotine was built around 1890 as I understand, so he did not have it made. His sale price for it is well in excess of $100,000 I am told but that includes its "historical" value.

My guess is that a "good" copy of a 1872/1907 Berger guillotine could be made for around $20,000. So far I have pricing information for some of the parts like the mouton/blade assembly, the lunette mechanism and tracks but not a price for the whole thing.

A 1792 model would be significantly cheaper to build than the Berger, maybe 1/3 of the price.

Boisdejustice a écrit:

My guess is that a "good" copy of a 1872/1907 Berger guillotine could be made for around $20,000. So far I have pricing information for some of the parts like the mouton/blade assembly, the lunette mechanism and tracks but not a price for the whole thing.

Thanks for the reply. I knew I was going to grossly underestimate, somehow. A hundred grand sounds a lot more plausible for one of the elaborate Berger contraptions. More than a car, eep! But with normal use, and discounting accidents, a car could never take anyone on the kind of journey that good old Madame Guillotine can provide.

Can I guess, by your comments above, that you have actually contemplated the thought of a full-scale model? I am sure if you attempted it someone would be willing to buy, although, with the crazy things some people are willing to attempt these days, I think you would have to have any potential buyer sign a waiver saying they take full responsibility for whatever they do with the machine once it is out of your hands.

So... would a $20,000 guillotine actually chop heads?

And who stands to inherit dear Mr. Meyssonnier's 'babies' after he is gone? The poor fellow is sick, I understand. Maybe people on the forum could convince him to hold a raffle with the winner being designated the inheritor in his will?

About costs of the guillotine XIX century( from Syvan's guillotine site)
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Voici, ? titre de curiosité, le devis de ce qu'a co?té la guillotine nouveau mod?le qui a servi pour la premi?re fois, croyons-nous pour l'exécution de Joly.

La charpente de la machine et celle du plancher sur lequel elle est posée. 1 200 F.

Les ferrures. 500 F.

Les deux couperets (il a en a un de rechange). 500 F.

Les poulies et les rainures. 900 F. Le mouton en fer forgé. 550 F.

Deux paniers d'osier destinés ? recevoir le corps du supplicié. 400 F.

Deux cuvettes en zinc pour recevoir la t?te. 300 F.

Les cordages. 60 F.

Total. 4 410 F.

Cette note dont les divers articles étaient taxés ? un prix exagéré, fut soumise ? une commission chargée d'examiner la machine et son prix. La commission frappa la note d'une réduction de 1132 F soit un peu plus de 25 %. La guillotine, telle qu'elle existe aujourd'hui a donc co?té 3 278 F.

As M.Meyssonnier's family are not particularly fond of death penalty and torture devices, I think, when he'll die, they will sell everything to the first who'll come. Believe me : I will buy one of his guillotines. They're too expensive for my wallet for the moment. But when I'll a be a famous writer/singer, I will. I hope it will happen pretty soon !

Okay, I'm kidding. As M.Meyssonnier is a friend of mine, my mind won't be immediately ready to talk about money when he'll pass away.

A few times, M.Meyssonnier proposed to me to take one of his guillotines for free and drive across France to show it on public places, for a small price. Benefits would be split in two : half for him, half for me.
I prefer to caution : that's because he knows and trusts me that he told me that idea. But I didn"t accept, cause I don't have the time for it and be cause I don't know if people would be delighted to see such a thing on their town.

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Very interesting idea. Try now or in future

Sywan a écrit:

A few times, M.Meyssonnier proposed to me to take one of his guillotines for free and drive across France to show it on public places, for a small price. Benefits would be split in two : half for him, half for me.
I prefer to caution : that's because he knows and trusts me that he told me that idea. But I didn"t accept, cause I don't have the time for it and be cause I don't know if people would be delighted to see such a thing on their town.

It's all about marketing, really. Perhaps the populace in general might be a bit squeamish, but there are also a lot of people like us who find this sort of thing fascinating. What you really need to do is look at the type of groups who would fall into this category. One group I would suggest is Goths. Now, before you get up in arms (as I don't know how familiar people on this forums are with the subculture), let me say that the Goths I know are among the most cultured, artistic and educated people I have ever met. Sure, they have an interest in the darker side of life sometimes, but I think acknowledging death happens is a lot healthier than sticking one's head in the sand and pretending we are going to live forever. I am sure some Goth club owners would love to be able to demonstrate a real, functional guillotine for their patrons. People would also like to have their picture taken with one, although for safety's sake you would probably want to draw the line at them actually sticking their head in the lunette. Personally, I would never tempt fate in such a way - I even refused to stick my head in a magician's guillotine, once upon a time. Brr...!

Another group that might have a particular interest in hosting a guillotine would probably be those who are interested in BDSM - sometimes people have erotic fantasies of death. This is often an uncomfortable combination of taboos for the average person to handle, but again, if you think of marketing, an exposition to this group could be quite profitable and popular, again, with proper safety rules and precautions.

Hmm, you know, you could get Boisdejustice onboard for an increase in profits by having him make a few models for you to sell at your demos. First you see the real guillotine in action, and then you can have a little piece of the excitement to take home!

Sylvain:

How many guillotines does Fernand Meyssonnier have? I saw an interview with him from a while back when he still had his museum and you could see the main parts from at least 3 guillotines, all of the Berger type. They all looked old and not like reproductions...

Has he told you much about them? Where they came from? If they are all authentic? etc. I have always had doubts about whether he actually got them out of Algeria or acquired them elsewhere. He lived in Tahiti for a while and I know there were guillotine executions in Tahiti too so I thought he might have bought one of them over there?

Two of the moutons have rollers which would theoretically make them post 1899 (Deibler had the rollers added in 1899?) but he claims the one you took pictures of is an 1880-1890 model. I am not at all questionning him I am just trying to collect some facts about when the rollers were added and how many Berger guillotines were actually built. Him having 3 means that there are more than I thought. If you prefer to discuss this outside the forum you can E-mail me directly.

Si on en croit les statistiques de l'INSEE qui donne les coefficients de l'inflation "officielle" le prix d'origine de 3278 Francs or corresondrait à : 11145€ ( source INSEE dans la revue Numismatique et changes )

Bonjour,

Ce qui ferait environ 73 000 francs d'avant l'euro. Ce n'est pas cher. Il est vrai que la main-d'oeuvre était bon marché et les fournitures aussi à cette époque.

La Veuve bradée…

Quotidien Le Petit Journal, du 04-01-1871.

La guillotine de Bourges a été vendue hier à M. X. pour 50 francs, par le receveur de l'enregistrement des actes judiciaires. Elle a été mise en vente par affiches depuis plus de six mois, d'abord au prix de 150 francs, puis de 75 francs. Le couperet, le bois et la façon avaient coûté 2,500 francs.
On sait qu'il n'y a plus aujourd'hui en France qu'un seul exécuteur, c'est celui de Paris.